League reorganisation

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The Reasonable Man
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Re: League reorganisation

Post by The Reasonable Man » 01 Mar 2018, 20:40

andy wrote:
28 Feb 2018, 22:19
Just found another 4 that come in at 100 miles +. Not exactly that much of a local league.
When and where were you promised a "local league"?

All the FA ever said was that there would be four divisions instead of three at Step 3.

There's obviously still plenty of water to flow under the bridge in the next couple of months but for now let's assume the line-up posted above. I reckon the clubs we might all agree are "local" would be...

Alvechurch
Banbury United
Barwell
Chasetown
Coalville Town
Halesowen Town
Hednesford Town
Redditch United
Rushall Olympic
Stafford Rangers
Stourbr*dge
Stratford Town

That's 12.

There are a few others that *could* fall under the general description of "Midlands" - Kettering, Rushden & Diamonds, possibly St Neots. So let's be generous and call it 15.

Anybody want to suggest who the other seven should be to make it up to 22?

(And of course, Alvechurch and Chasetown might not come up, Hednesford or Barwell might be promoted, as might Kettering, or even Banbury)

The FA will be dealt a hand of 88 clubs. It's already been decided how those 88 will be arrived at. Dividing them up is actually quite simple... to a point. The remotest parts of the country - in terms of numbers of clubs - are the far North and the far South West, so they start with the 22 furthest North, who will go into the NPL, and then the 22 closest to Cornwall, who will go into the Southern League. Then all they have to do is come to the most sensible way of splitting the other 44, and the way they propose is almost certainly the best way for the greatest number of clubs.

As for still having long journeys, what do you expect? The country bis quite big, and there will still only be four divisions to cover it. The restructure means that Whitby will no longer be travelling to us, Kings Lynn will no longer be travelling to Tiverton (and theoretically Truro at some stage), and Lowestoft will no longer be travelling to Worthing (181 miles via the M25). Over all the average distances / travel times for most clubs will reduce but there will still be a few long trips.

Lower standard of football due to more promoted teams from Step 4? Not quite sure that holds water - Lancaster, Shaw lane, Farsley and Witton seem to be doing their bit this season to uphold standards in the Division.

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YeltzDoc
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Re: League reorganisation

Post by YeltzDoc » 01 Mar 2018, 20:45

Sensible stuff from TRM as ever.
Just one point to quibble. I don’t think Stourbr*dge will be in the league, with their recent form, they could still go down.

The Reasonable Man
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Re: League reorganisation

Post by The Reasonable Man » 01 Mar 2018, 20:47

I did stop short of suggesting we might still go up...

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andy
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Re: League reorganisation

Post by andy » 02 Mar 2018, 09:47

I think you're missing my point a bit TRM. My point is, what IS the point? It gains almost nothing except diluting the current divisions.

Wheels
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Re: League reorganisation

Post by Wheels » 02 Mar 2018, 10:46

My understanding was I read something somewhere to the effect that teams in the northern league i.e. the one below the NPL up north for quite a while now have been refusing promotion to the NPL because of the travel costs. That I think is one of the reasons for the restructure that is certainly the one I've read.

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andy
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Re: League reorganisation

Post by andy » 02 Mar 2018, 11:30

Wheels wrote:
02 Mar 2018, 10:46
My understanding was I read something somewhere to the effect that teams in the northern league i.e. the one below the NPL up north for quite a while now have been refusing promotion to the NPL because of the travel costs. That I think is one of the reasons for the restructure that is certainly the one I've read.
But has that league become part of the pyramid as s result of this? I'm not sure it has. It has always been a high standard league and seems to guarantee a vase finalist most years and good crowds. I just didn't think teams from there wanted to progress up the leagues as they were doing alright on their own. I maybe completely wrong with all this, I'm sure Poll will be able to clarify, living up there, somewhere just shy of the Faroes.

The Reasonable Man
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Re: League reorganisation

Post by The Reasonable Man » 02 Mar 2018, 11:34

Apologies Andy. I quoted your comment but was actually responding to all sorts of others too,

Several reasons behind the rejig.

Wheels is right - they want to bring the Northern League more into the fold. Most clubs up there have been reluctant (to put it mildly) to come up for whatever reason, with the exceptions of clubs obviously geared up for it - Spennymoor, Darlington, South Shields. By pulling the NPL footprint further North the theory is it will be more appealing as their travel distances will be lower. There is also talk of making promotion from Step 5 compulsory - I'm not quite sure how that will work in practice. If a club wins the Northern League and point-blank refuses promotion, will they be slung back down to the bottom of the pyramid? We shall see.

Reduction of the Step 3 divisions to 22 clubs - an extra division was the only way to do this as clubs wouldn't agree to multiple relegations (the turkeys / Christmas scenario) to reduce the numbers. Four fewer games next season, meaning four fewer poorly attended midweek games (a lot of clubs make a loss on midweek games), and fewer journeys to make on cold Tuesday nights.

Evening out the pyramid - at the moment three feed into two at our level. The SL can feed National League North or South. That, coupled with the Northern League not promoting clubs is pushing the North/South line further and further towards London. When they get to the 1-2-4-8 structure (currently 1-2-3-6, and will be 1-2-4-7 next season), and when (if?) the Northern League promotes a club every season, that should stop.

Less travelling. I'm not doing the maths (ok, maybe I will) but I'm sure the vast majority of clubs will see their average away trip come down next season.

The fact is that if you want or expect "local" football then there is a place for you in the pyramid. It's called Step 5 and below. If you want local football at Step 3, then you need to have 15 or 16 Divisions at that level, and somebody is then going to have to work out how promotion from all those Divisions into two Divisions at Step 2 will work, because somehow I don't see the National League agreeing to relegate 8 teams from each of its North / South Divisions each season.

I don't see it diluting standards on the pitch. Two or three extra teams from Step 4 in each Step 3 Division next season is neither here nor there. I do wonder whether some clubs are geared up for Step 3 off the pitch, though. There are already clubs at this level who have me scratching my heads at how they sustain it.

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andy
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Re: League reorganisation

Post by andy » 02 Mar 2018, 11:56

Excellent reply TRM. Could you clarify if the northern league is currently part of the pyramid though. I was under the impression it wasn't. And if they are the reason for all this why don't they just rejig the north and leave everybody else alone. I personally like the idea of playing 'bigger' clubs and we don't have any round here like FCUM, Workington, Altrincham, Darlington and others that we have played in recent years.

The Reasonable Man
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Re: League reorganisation

Post by The Reasonable Man » 02 Mar 2018, 12:09

It is part of the pyramid, in exactly the same way as the Midland League in our area - it's where Darlo, Spennymoor and South Shields came from.

At the moment, like all Step 5 Leagues, its clubs have to apply for promotion to be eligible. Most don't - Bishop Auckland are generally the one exception who do apply every year, but can't seem to get their act together on the pitch. Once they've applied they have to finish - I think - in the top three. If the champions have applied they will come up, if not the second placed club can come up instead, and possibly the third placed club if the top two haven't applied. Fourth and below certainly can't come up, whether they've applied or not. Its usually strictly only one promotion per League.

This summer there will be extra places for promotion from Step 5 to fill the extra Step 4 Division. I think its 26 places from the 14 Leagues at that level, so two per League, give or take, instead of the usual one.

As for just sorting out the North, we might (or might not) be happy in the NPL but it's not just about us, or the NPL, or the Northern League. There are issues elsewhere - such as King's Lynn travelling to Tiverton (and potentially Truro). The whole structure needs to be changed to address things.

The Reasonable Man
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Re: League reorganisation

Post by The Reasonable Man » 02 Mar 2018, 12:17

Travelling - based on the line-up posted above, Stour's average away trip next season would be 78 miles, compared with 87 miles this season. Granted, not much of a difference, but in both set-ups we are "peripheral" - we will have travelling to do whichever League we are in. I would be interested to see the figures for clubs like Workington, Whitby, King's Lynn, Lowestoft and Tiverton, but I'm NOT doing the maths on those!

Journeys over 200 miles - 1 each
Over 150 miles - 3 next season, 2 this season
Over 100 miles - 8 each
Under 50 miles - 8 next season, 6 this season

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